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	<title>Comments on: What Is Being Defended?</title>
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	<link>http://kmareka.com/2006/08/11/what-is-being-defended/</link>
	<description>Progressive Views from a Nurse and a Social Worker</description>
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		<title>By: Mark Fournier</title>
		<link>http://kmareka.com/2006/08/11/what-is-being-defended/#comment-770</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Fournier]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Aug 2006 23:25:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kmareka.com/index.php/?p=445#comment-770</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The point is not moot, because everyone else is not trying to blow us up--although I would agree that George Bush hates our freedoms, as do most of the people on the Religious Right.

Societies must mediate conflicts, which is why you have laws, debates, and elections. If someone decides that one of their freedoms is to shoot you and take everything you own, you might object. Well, most people might, but maybe you wouldn&#039;t. Some freedoms contradict the freedoms of others, and must be negotiated within society. But a gay person&#039;s right to marry has no impact on the marriages of straight people, and our freedoms in the media and the internet have no impact on the freedoms of the people of the Middle East. The effort to limit these, and other similar campaigns, are essentially fascist. They are the attempt to impose control for the sake of control. Do not dignify them as an inevitable result of democracy.

People in the occupied territories are pissed at Israel. Iran is not an occupied territory. Neither is Saudi Arabia. The Muslim extremists aren&#039;t even concerned with the people in the occupied territories, as the casualty list indicates. And say we get rid of the tyrannies they complain about, as Bush did in Iraq? Look at what happened. So what are we supposed to do? We can&#039;t go back in time and undo what&#039;s been done.

You are too willing to take the opinions of a small vocal group in the Middle East, just as they are too willing to assume that we are all Dubya. Most of them just want to get on with their lives. The motivations of terrorists are every bit as twisted as the psychology of Bush. Don&#039;t presume that they speak for all Muslims or all Arabs, any more than you would assume that gangsta rappers speak for all blacks.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The point is not moot, because everyone else is not trying to blow us up&#8211;although I would agree that George Bush hates our freedoms, as do most of the people on the Religious Right.</p>
<p>Societies must mediate conflicts, which is why you have laws, debates, and elections. If someone decides that one of their freedoms is to shoot you and take everything you own, you might object. Well, most people might, but maybe you wouldn&#8217;t. Some freedoms contradict the freedoms of others, and must be negotiated within society. But a gay person&#8217;s right to marry has no impact on the marriages of straight people, and our freedoms in the media and the internet have no impact on the freedoms of the people of the Middle East. The effort to limit these, and other similar campaigns, are essentially fascist. They are the attempt to impose control for the sake of control. Do not dignify them as an inevitable result of democracy.</p>
<p>People in the occupied territories are pissed at Israel. Iran is not an occupied territory. Neither is Saudi Arabia. The Muslim extremists aren&#8217;t even concerned with the people in the occupied territories, as the casualty list indicates. And say we get rid of the tyrannies they complain about, as Bush did in Iraq? Look at what happened. So what are we supposed to do? We can&#8217;t go back in time and undo what&#8217;s been done.</p>
<p>You are too willing to take the opinions of a small vocal group in the Middle East, just as they are too willing to assume that we are all Dubya. Most of them just want to get on with their lives. The motivations of terrorists are every bit as twisted as the psychology of Bush. Don&#8217;t presume that they speak for all Muslims or all Arabs, any more than you would assume that gangsta rappers speak for all blacks.</p>
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		<title>By: Kiersten</title>
		<link>http://kmareka.com/2006/08/11/what-is-being-defended/#comment-769</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kiersten]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:37:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kmareka.com/index.php/?p=445#comment-769</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree, David.  This is one of your finer efforts, a piece where your talent as a writer really shines.  You raise provocative questions, and while I would agree with Rob that the features that Bush displays are features displayed by many leaders and by many people, I think it is important to point out the enormous repercussions of the &quot;reaction formation&quot; (isn&#039;t that what it&#039;s called?) of our defender-in-chief.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, David.  This is one of your finer efforts, a piece where your talent as a writer really shines.  You raise provocative questions, and while I would agree with Rob that the features that Bush displays are features displayed by many leaders and by many people, I think it is important to point out the enormous repercussions of the &#8220;reaction formation&#8221; (isn&#8217;t that what it&#8217;s called?) of our defender-in-chief.</p>
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		<title>By: Joanzi</title>
		<link>http://kmareka.com/2006/08/11/what-is-being-defended/#comment-768</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joanzi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Aug 2006 12:49:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kmareka.com/index.php/?p=445#comment-768</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Terrific piece!

I only wish Bush had the maturity or mental fortitude to &lt;em&gt;be&lt;/em&gt; that self-aware.  I believe he has all of the behaviors you ascribe to him, but absolute and total  indifference to public perception of him.

Surely there&#039;s a phenomenon in &lt;em&gt;child&lt;/em&gt; psychology that fits?  uh... &quot;frat-brat&quot; syndrome, or &quot;mommy&#039;s little avenging devil&quot; ...  something like that?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terrific piece!</p>
<p>I only wish Bush had the maturity or mental fortitude to <em>be</em> that self-aware.  I believe he has all of the behaviors you ascribe to him, but absolute and total  indifference to public perception of him.</p>
<p>Surely there&#8217;s a phenomenon in <em>child</em> psychology that fits?  uh&#8230; &#8220;frat-brat&#8221; syndrome, or &#8220;mommy&#8217;s little avenging devil&#8221; &#8230;  something like that?</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://kmareka.com/2006/08/11/what-is-being-defended/#comment-767</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Aug 2006 03:27:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kmareka.com/index.php/?p=445#comment-767</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great insight, I remember it being said (cant remember the source) that the societies we construct and live in mirror our mental makeup. Maybe it should be amended to mirror the mental make up of those who think they are in charge!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great insight, I remember it being said (cant remember the source) that the societies we construct and live in mirror our mental makeup. Maybe it should be amended to mirror the mental make up of those who think they are in charge!</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://kmareka.com/2006/08/11/what-is-being-defended/#comment-766</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rob]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Aug 2006 02:07:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kmareka.com/index.php/?p=445#comment-766</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The point Mark makes about leaders fearing freedom because of the potential loss of control and power it brings is completely universal around the world amongst all people at all levels. It drives the Ayatollah as much as it drives George Bush as much as it drives everyone on the street. It is in fact the very basis of democracry... forcing everyone else to live by the rules of the group that wins. A truly free society would have no elections.. no debates, no laws.. people would be free to live as they please.

As an example, US election debates are essentialy about freedoms.. the right to choose, the right to have one&#039;s relationship recognised by law, the right to smoke.. it goes on and on... every single issue is basically about whether one section of a society is prepared to allow another section do something else.

Everyone hates everyone else&#039; freedom... we all hate any attempt made by anyone to curb or determine our lifestyles.

The argument is therefore pretty much moot.

For those on the ground in the occupied territories, the division of the region is the nearest root cause... whilst the US and Israel&#039;s ongoing policies and actions have been the core issue ever since. Don&#039;t make it up... just ask them. They are the best judges of their own pains and fear.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The point Mark makes about leaders fearing freedom because of the potential loss of control and power it brings is completely universal around the world amongst all people at all levels. It drives the Ayatollah as much as it drives George Bush as much as it drives everyone on the street. It is in fact the very basis of democracry&#8230; forcing everyone else to live by the rules of the group that wins. A truly free society would have no elections.. no debates, no laws.. people would be free to live as they please.</p>
<p>As an example, US election debates are essentialy about freedoms.. the right to choose, the right to have one&#8217;s relationship recognised by law, the right to smoke.. it goes on and on&#8230; every single issue is basically about whether one section of a society is prepared to allow another section do something else.</p>
<p>Everyone hates everyone else&#8217; freedom&#8230; we all hate any attempt made by anyone to curb or determine our lifestyles.</p>
<p>The argument is therefore pretty much moot.</p>
<p>For those on the ground in the occupied territories, the division of the region is the nearest root cause&#8230; whilst the US and Israel&#8217;s ongoing policies and actions have been the core issue ever since. Don&#8217;t make it up&#8230; just ask them. They are the best judges of their own pains and fear.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Fournier</title>
		<link>http://kmareka.com/2006/08/11/what-is-being-defended/#comment-765</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Fournier]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Aug 2006 22:50:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kmareka.com/index.php/?p=445#comment-765</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There&#039;s no question that 100 years of inept foreign policy has brought us to this, on both the part of England and America. England&#039;s contribution includes the partitioning of India and the creation of Pakistan, and the support of Wahabbiist extremists, both a product of a divide and conquer strategy. America&#039;s contribution was to support extremist theocratic elements, in the hopes that they would oppose &quot;Godless&quot; communism, and to undermine democratically elected governments in favour of puppet regimes. America&#039;s installation of the Shah eventually led to the revolution and the current theocracy; had it not been for this, Iran might be the voice of moderation in the Middle East and not the central distributor of terrorism. And the invasion of Iraq is enough to put Bush up there with the worst of them--it was probably the worst policy possible under the circumstances.

However, to blame this all on support for Israel and discount the genuine antipathy of Muslim extremists for Western values and freedoms is simply naive. Israel is a vanishingly small portion of the Middle East. The body count on terrorist attacks shows a complete lack of concern for the safety of Palestinians on the part of the terrorists. Believing that Muslims go to heaven as martyrs when killed in Jihad, the terrorists actually think they are doing Palestinians a favour by killing them. Nesrallah isn&#039;t after Zionists; he said that it would be better if all Jews came to Israel, so that he would be able to kill them all. Israel is a political red herring, played up by dictators and populist demagogues in the Middle East to keep their people distracted from the real issues. And it works--the people fall for it, the DSB fell for it, and even you fell for it.

Good fences make good neighbours, as the old saying goes, but the internet and the flow of culture from America has brought American values directly into the homes of millions of people in the Middle East. The fences have come down. This challenges the ideological monopoly of the clerics, and what they really want us to do is shut up; they want to stop the flow of information and influence at source, if possible. That means, yes, that they do actually oppose your freedoms. This may not be the view of the majority of the citizenry, but it is what is motivating the terrorist extremist groups, who are led by Imams and fight in the name of Islam. They&#039;re afraid that if their own people get a taste of these freedoms, they might want them too, and the theocratic stranglehold that exists in their countries will end. So as much as I hate to agree with Bush on anything, Islamic terrorists really do hate your freedoms.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s no question that 100 years of inept foreign policy has brought us to this, on both the part of England and America. England&#8217;s contribution includes the partitioning of India and the creation of Pakistan, and the support of Wahabbiist extremists, both a product of a divide and conquer strategy. America&#8217;s contribution was to support extremist theocratic elements, in the hopes that they would oppose &#8220;Godless&#8221; communism, and to undermine democratically elected governments in favour of puppet regimes. America&#8217;s installation of the Shah eventually led to the revolution and the current theocracy; had it not been for this, Iran might be the voice of moderation in the Middle East and not the central distributor of terrorism. And the invasion of Iraq is enough to put Bush up there with the worst of them&#8211;it was probably the worst policy possible under the circumstances.</p>
<p>However, to blame this all on support for Israel and discount the genuine antipathy of Muslim extremists for Western values and freedoms is simply naive. Israel is a vanishingly small portion of the Middle East. The body count on terrorist attacks shows a complete lack of concern for the safety of Palestinians on the part of the terrorists. Believing that Muslims go to heaven as martyrs when killed in Jihad, the terrorists actually think they are doing Palestinians a favour by killing them. Nesrallah isn&#8217;t after Zionists; he said that it would be better if all Jews came to Israel, so that he would be able to kill them all. Israel is a political red herring, played up by dictators and populist demagogues in the Middle East to keep their people distracted from the real issues. And it works&#8211;the people fall for it, the DSB fell for it, and even you fell for it.</p>
<p>Good fences make good neighbours, as the old saying goes, but the internet and the flow of culture from America has brought American values directly into the homes of millions of people in the Middle East. The fences have come down. This challenges the ideological monopoly of the clerics, and what they really want us to do is shut up; they want to stop the flow of information and influence at source, if possible. That means, yes, that they do actually oppose your freedoms. This may not be the view of the majority of the citizenry, but it is what is motivating the terrorist extremist groups, who are led by Imams and fight in the name of Islam. They&#8217;re afraid that if their own people get a taste of these freedoms, they might want them too, and the theocratic stranglehold that exists in their countries will end. So as much as I hate to agree with Bush on anything, Islamic terrorists really do hate your freedoms.</p>
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